Saturday, December 19, 2015

Philip's answer to 9/11 truthers

Philip De Groot shared Jon Wesenberg's post. December 17 at 9:04pm · Jon Wesenberg December 17 at 8:28pm · I have tried explaining this to a few 9/11 conspiracy dupes, but all they seem capable of is adjusting me out of their view with their side blinders. Watch this guy destroy the ‘undying moronic jet fuel argument’ of 9/11 truthers “Jet Fuel Can’t Melt Steel Beams” is an assertion made by 9/11 truther conspiracy theorists which claims that burning fuel from crashed planes would not have been… DEADSTATE.ORG LikeCommentShare Bill Ja likes this. Comments Bill Ja Bill Ja Sharing. Like · Reply · 19 hrs Bill Ja Bill Ja David A Robertson. Of course we know he might not be telling the truth, but it is an interesting counter argument, don't you think? If he is telling the truth then a strong piece of the conspiracy is destroyed. Like · Reply · 19 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson That's a piece of regular metal that's been in a furnace for i don't know how long. Jet fuel after the initial explosion was burned off quickly. Office furniture & carpet doesn't burn at that temp to melt the subsequent floors below. &! Those building...See More 30-Second Reel of Building 7 Collapse Footage YOUTUBE.COM Like · Reply · 1 · 18 hrs · Edited David A Robertson David A Robertson I researched this. This is legit! https://youtu.be/suQitX2GmTU Mysterious Deaths of 9 11 Witnesses (MUST SEE) -… YOUTUBE.COM Like · Reply · 18 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot O dear. The gas turbine (jet engine) was patented by a British pilot in 1930. The very best steel alloys of the day could not withstand the heat generated by the burning jet fuel. It took 15 years to come up with alloys that could make jet engines survive a few hundred hours of use. The early engines didn't melt, they just got too soft to withstand the stresses being applied. If "structural" steel could withstand the heat of burning kerosene WWII would have been fought with jet aircraft. Structural steel used to make skyscrapers are not complex alloys of steel nickel chromium and vanadium (if I remember my jet engine metallurgy correctly). The twin towers had a steel (not concrete) column in the center and a complex lattice of structural beams and girders that held up the office space. All that was required to make the floors collapse was for the burning fuel to heat the steel structure to the point where it lost a proportion of its strength. There was no need for the steel to melt. Almost all metals lose half their strength when heated to 1000ºF (540ºC). This is true for structural steel. The steel didn't melt. It just lost some of its strength. That is the phenomenon being demonstrated in the video. Steel has a very low thermal capacity. It heats up very quickly. Like · Reply · 1 · 17 hrs · Edited Philip De Groot Philip De Groot http://www.debunking911.com/towers.htm Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - Towers Collapse DEBUNKING911.COM Like · Reply · 17 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot http://www.debunking911.com/impact.htm Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Myth - Plane Impact Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Myth - Plane Impact DEBUNKING911.COM Like · Reply · 1 · 17 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Myths - Fires DEBUNKING911.COM Like · Reply · 17 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson Stop it! Like · Reply · 17 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot Stop what? Bringing my knowledge of metallurgy to the debate? The world trade centre was made of steel. It was a rather revolutionary design that did not involve much concrete. There wasn't much fire proofing on the steel and it appears that the normal...See More Like · Reply · 17 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson Military technology is way more advanced than what we have commercially. We don't know what "they" have that can melt steel. Like · Reply · 16 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot I was a defense contractor at the time and I had secret clearance. I had some idea of the kind of explosives that were and are available. They aren't that secret. If you want to melt steel you use thermite much as was used during WWII. If you want to create a massive shockwave you use high explosives. The chemistry of explosives, including the propellant in modern artillery shells is pretty much published on the internet. Like · Reply · 1 · 16 hrs View more replies Virgil Fenn Write a reply... Choose File David A Robertson David A Robertson With all that bs you just wrote. The soft metal was at the top of the building correct? To fall free fall speed means that the lower floors and base of the building gave no resistance. Right? It's common sense. Straight down. No resistance. No slow collapsing off each lower floor from the weight of the upper floors. Have govts ever lied before? I've seen those vids you posted before a couple of times. Straight BS! Explain building 7. Matter of fact, explain the Pentagon or the little hole in w Pa. Better yet explain the maneuvers those barely amateur pilots executed at extremely high difficulty to complete this. I have an open mind about a lot of things. But this I know, that story is ALL BS. Ray Charles can see it in 20/20. To get close to that temp you need a steady flow of jet fuel to the point of impact. It pains me that folks who believe the story deny all the evidence. The Put Options transactions, the shutting down of different areas of the buildings for "repairs" with armed security securing those work areas. Oh it was announced that bldg 7 had collapsed on air with the building still standing in the background. George Bush is a war criminal & needs to be brought to justice! This buildings were built to withstand the wind, earthquakes & airplane impacts & collapsed straight down freefall speed in a hour. It has never happened before. I don't even want to write anymore because it's pointless. I've seen no proof to convince me otherwise. Just rhetoric from a complicit lamestream media. Welcome to the new world order! David A Robertson's photo. Like · Reply · 16 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson Philip De Groot please don't take me as being confrontational. I'm not! Like · Reply · 16 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot You are doing a good job of hiding it. Like · Reply · 1 · 15 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson I'm very passionate. Sometimes mistaken for confrontational. Or argumentative. Please don't take it that way. I've done a lot of research. Are you familiar with Bilderberg or Bohemian Grove, Operation Gladio, Agenda 21, Rex84? I try to keep up with recently declassified info & history. These bankers & big business cannot be trusted. They operate on a whole other level. & the little guys (us) aren't included. Lol. I respect your opinion. Like · Reply · 15 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot I was part owner of a manufacturing company that supplied military specific equipment to the US military. I was the marketing manager and I lead a number of development projects. Some of my staff had worked on the stealth programme. That is one reason why I hired them. There was a lot of stuff they knew that they weren't allowed to share with me. Luckily I did not need to know the fine details of stealth to defeat thermal and near infra-red (night vision) sensors. Stealth is a radar issue. I already had adequate radar scattering technology and some other technology that was developed independently of the US stealth programme. In fact any good electrical engineer could have come up with the radar defeating technology we developed. And everybody has a microwave oven. Radar waves are used to heat water in a microwave oven yet there is a glass window in the door of the oven. You have probably also noticed that in the window of a microwave oven there is a metal lattice. The metal lattice in the window is a "frequency selective surface" that is very specifically designed to block the specific wavelength of radar used by the oven. That is why you can look into a microwave oven without cooking your face. The complex mathematics employed in developing frequency selective surfaces or band pass filters exists in the public domain because of the microwave oven industry. So let me just say I am familiar with a lot of things military. I was a member of the "so-called" military industrial complex. I witnessed movement between government and corporations (including mine) and I am familiar with how US politicians use defense spending to raise money for their own political campaigns. I watched Bill Clinton saw the defense industry in half leading to the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs. During the Clinton era a lot of famous US defense contractors disappeared. They were merged with other companies in order to ensure that their technology wasn't lost but most of the employees were let go. The military industrial complex is largely a myth with some exceptions. I just finished reading "A Bodyguard of Lies" again. It was the first book to be published describing how Britain used Alan Turing's first computer to break the enigma codes used by the Germans. Under certain circumstances the government can engage in covert operations that nobody learns about but the new Bush administration in 2000 bore no resemblance to Britain in 1940. The US is far too partisan. What might appear to be a secret to you would not have been a secret to the entire US senate. The attack on the world trade centre cannot be compared to the Gulf of Tonkin attack. I do not subscribe to many conspiracy theories. Like · Reply · 1 · 14 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson I like talking to you. I never said it was an inside job. Like · Reply · 13 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot Who do you think is responsible then? Like · Reply · 12 hrs Virgil Fenn Write a reply... Choose File Philip De Groot Philip De Groot The Bush administration came into office planning to invade Iraq. The Program for a New American Century had already made the case that Saddam had mustard gas and a lot of people signed the PNAC letter to Clinton in 1997? encouraging him to order the invasion of Iraq. The US military was already planning the invasion of Iraq when the World Trade Centre was attacked. This forced the military to drop the Iraq project because, all of a sudden, they had to invade Afghanistan. This was considered a major distraction and it delayed the invasion of Iraq by some time. US public opinion supported an invasion of Iraq simply to finish off what had been started during the first gulf war. There was no need for a false flag attack to get the US onside. Indeed, the major argument that the US presented to the world was that Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction". Ironically he did have a moderate inventory of mustard gas in 2001 which he disposed of prior to 2003. Reliable sources tracked the Iraqi mustard gas to Sudan and Yemen. The military has media outlets it uses to makes its opinions known. Some of the sources are relatively obscure. I am familiar with some of them because I was familiar with how the military operated. As a marketing manager it was important for me to stay tuned to my customers intentions. So before anybody started calling 9/11 a false flag operation I already knew that the US government was committed to invading Iraq and that the US military did not want to waste its time invading Afghanistan. Cheny et. al. who had ties to PNAC had the evidence they needed in 2001 that Saddam had mustard gas. By 2003 that evidence was gone and the government was forced to lie. In other words the attack on the world trade centre did not advance the government's or the military's agenda. Indeed, it hindered it forcing everyone to focus on Afghanistan. Rice was convinced that Iraq could be turned into an affluent middle class Arab democracy which would convince all the oppressed Arab Muslims in the region to abandon Islamism in favour of capitalism. She made speeches to this effect and she was the one who recruited Bush's foreign policy advisers -most of whom were associated with PNAC. Cheney et. al. rightly assumed that Saddam would be easy to defeat and that the US public would support the invasion. What Cheney and Rice got terribly wrong was the consequences of the invasion and the subsequent civil war. There was no incentive for the Bush administration to engage in a false flag operation that could get the entire cabinet indicted for mass murder. Saddam did have WMDs in 2001 and the US public was quite willing to support another middle eastern adventure. After the first Gulf War most Americans believed that "finishing the job" would be easy leading to few if any casualties. It was pretty clear to me that the 9/11 incident was an unwanted diversion that threatened the Iraq invasion. It certainly forced postponement of the invasion until after Saddam had rid himself of his mustard gas. I have never seen any evidence that the US government or the military felt any need to engage in a false flag operation to justify invading Iraq. If they had felt some such need they would have engineered some "operation" that clearly implicated Saddam. The administration had to scramble to find the tiniest shred of evidence linking Saddam with al-Qaeda. That is where the whole conspiracy theory falls apart. If the whole 9/11 attack was a false flag then the "bad guys" who flew the planes into the twin towers should have been Iraqi special forces. Saddam's security forces had tried to arrange the assassination of George H. W. Bush in Kuwait. They failed but not without everybody in the world accepting the fact that Saddam had ordered the hit. Like · Reply · 1 · 15 hrs David A Robertson David A Robertson Great! A+! Did you type all that or cut & paste? Great info. Didn't know some things. Like · Reply · 13 hrs Philip De Groot Philip De Groot I wrote all of it off the top of my head just then posted it immediately. Like · Reply · 1 · 12 hrs Virgil Fenn Write a reply... Choose File Jon Wesenberg Jon Wesenberg Jon Wesenberg's photo. Like · Reply · 1 · 12 hrs Dolf Rannie Johnson Dolf Rannie Johnson Ummm, can I ask who cares? The fire didn't melt the beams, only soften them enough to allow the curtain wall collumns to buckle. Like · Reply · 5 hrs Virgil Fenn Virgil Fenn Some of my local friends are 9/11 truthers. They are on the right side of some other issues so I wish I could get them to see the absurdity of the 9/11 conspiracy theory. They even cite the 3rd tower thing as evidence. I will try to get them to read Philip's explanation. Like · Reply · 6 mins Virgil Fenn Write a reply... Choose File Virgil Fenn Write a comment...

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